i don't think bill clinton wants -- >> i think the fight is in bill clinton's head. i think bill clinton wants her, doesn't want her. i would argue that it's broader than just hillaryland. she represents a lot. i'm not saying she should run for president. i think what she represents and she is one figure and came from a generation that enacted so much change, he always, since long before the presidency was in question as a first lady candidate in 1992, she reflected something women never saw before. it was a new version of themselves. people attached so much meaning to her. she continues to have and she's built more and more and more. >> we know from political science research it's more difficult for them to run for office and win. when you have somebody who appears to be on the threshold of winning, you understand the enthusiasm. it's that's much harder. >> you are right. that trajectory for women is tough. we know, of course in political science research the people we elect to the presidency, our senators, governors and vice presidents. we don't elect first ladies.